This speaks volumes. - Jay Maynard

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Tuesday, 11 October 2005


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1948 - This speaks volumes.

youngvanwinkle thinks this T-shirt is funny.

I can't adequately say what I think of that. The words won't come. This will, undoubtedly, surprise some folks.

current mood: [mood icon] pissed off
current music: REO Speedwagon - Keep Pushin'

(13 comments | Leave a comment)

Comments:


[User Picture]
From:bronxelf_ag001
Date: - 0000
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I have some words too.

You wanna lay 100 that mine are even more angry than yours?

[User Picture]
From:jmaynard
Date: - 0000
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Not a chance.
[User Picture]
From:bronxelf_ag001
Date: - 0000
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I didn't think so either.

[User Picture]
From:shelbystripes
Date: - 0000
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Hi.

You have every reason to be angry at me. You don't know me, you're not my friend, you don't usually read my LJ, you don't know how emotionally broken and deeply morally-anchored I am, and how one of my ways of coping with an overwhelmingly cruel and immoral world is trying to laugh it at whenever I can. And even given all that, you still would still have the right to be pissed at me for enjoying something like that. To you, that's still sacred.

My friends, even the ones who're offended, they understand that I'm sharing that because I'm trying to show them how I think, how I work. I wanna be honest with my friends about who I am, warts and all, and my sick sense of humor is one of those warts. It's an outlet for me; pain overwhelms me quickly, and I try to shut it out by finding ways to laugh instead. And I'm usually ashamed of a lot of the things I find funny. I don't let it out often, because people inevitably are offended like this, and I don't like offending people. I think maybe the fact that I'm so afraid of offending people is part of why I end up being amused by things that're so offensive...

Anyway, I even said in the link to it that it was their most offensive T-shirt ever, as a rather blatant warning. I consider it offensive. It's just so wrong, and absurd, like the other shirts on that site, and that's what makes them such a good outlet to someone like me. My intent wasn't to offend people--if it was, as I've said in my own replies to people in my LJ, I'd just buy the shirt and wear it around. But I don't, because that's not what I want.

I was just trying to share a part of who I am with my friends, in the sense that we can't just share the good parts of ourselves with people and still be happy with who we are. I didn't want them to agree with me, I just wanted them to understand that about me, so that I'd feel like they knew me more honestly.

And I also knew that nobody on my friends list would be affected by it the same very painful way you were. If I honestly thought any one of them would've, I wouldn't have posted it at all, or I would've put it behind a cut with a warning to that person. And I've read your LJ and your comments in Jay's enough to know that I respect you, and if I thought you were gonna read it, I'd have put a warning there for you, too.

However, you should consider Jay's intent, and that he did no such thing. He could've just commented in my LJ that it was morally offensive to him, but he didn't, instead practically begging you to go look at it with his post. He has a long-standing grudge against me, and he acts like he wants nothing more than to see other people feel the same way toward me as he does. He posted it in his LJ, specifically so that you (and his other similarly-minded friends) would see it and have such an angry reaction, which he could then take back to my LJ, as he did, and use against as an example of how "morally bankrupt" I am. He didn't just say "look how offensive this T-shirt is," he said "look how immoral and indecent this person is," and he was sharing that so that you'd agree with him and he could use that against me. And he did use you in particular for that, too.

Jay did mean for you to get offended, because your doing so benefits him. He knew you'd read it, wanted you to feel anger and hatred, because of how desperate he often is to prove what a horrible person I am, and your doing so validates him in that way.

I don't expect you to feel any differently toward me after this. I apologize for offending you, and you can still hate me, call me evil, whatever you want, especially if doing so makes you feel better. Honestly, everything you have to say about me might be true. I concede that. But consider also that Jay shared it with you not just knowing but because of what a painful reaction you'd have to it, for no other reason than so he could tell people that you agreed with him. He's using your pain to make himself feel better, feel "validated", and I think that's easily as bad as what he's saying about me, if not worse.
[User Picture]
From:bronxelf_ag001
Date: - 0000
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(thanks for unscreening this, Jay. I couldn't reply to it until you did.)

If Jay's intent was as you believe, Mephit, then he managed to fail in his execution, as I did not in fact say a single word in yoour LJ about this.

I also don't think that finding a tshirt funny, even one such as this one, makes one morally bankrupt, as a person. That's ridiculous, and if it's true then I can assure you I went morally bankrupt long before you did.

I still don't think it's funny. I don't even think it's funny *just as a tshirt*, and though I truly believe that someone should dump Ann Coulter in a sealed piano case right into downtown Kabul (and have said this on many, many occasions, both out loud and in writing), I laughed at her NYT comment. Because it's like saying "wow, Im really mortified that x happened, but if y happened that would be just great!" when x and y have really the same value on a moral spectrum-- just a different victim. In that light, if someone wants to crash a plane into Ann Coulter's house, whilst she's in it, hey, we can make t-shirts.

Same basic premise.

You already get why I don't think it's funny. We don't need to cover that ground. It's still just not funny. I guess what offends me *most* is the co-opting of the ILNY campaign, because I've seen other merchandise which has roughly the same level of Not Funny and it doesn't *offend* me. It just isnt funny-- hell, I saw the photos of the childrens toys they were selling overseas that had the WTC and the plane and you could make the buildings collapse or something equally as WTF inducing-- and it didnt *offend* me.
Just made me wonder about who the hell buys this crap for their kids. But the co-opting of the ILNY campaign really does bother me.

You should know by now (Jay certainly does) that my politics and his politics only overlap in a very small area. I think that partisanship on "the left" has precious little to discern itself from partisanship on "the right" Fuck it, man. I'm a libertarian. I get hated by both sides. So I'm not so sure why you believe that a) this was, in fact Jay's motivation in posting this (vis a vis me, in specific), or that b) he would believe that I would react in the way you posit (which, as a reminder, didn't happen.)
I think that believing that a) gives me far too little credit, b) Jay, not enough credit, and c) sounds like you're thinking just a bit too much into this. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar-- and this is coming from the veritable master of the tinfoil hat theory on most things.

Also, you have to understand that I spend 18+ hours *every single day* dealing with people's reactions to international acts of terrorism, and they run the spectrum from one extreme to the other. I am in the middle, just trying to do my job, and get blamed from *both sides* for doing so.

But the tshirt? Still not funny.

However I do find the image of Ann Coulter trapped in Kabul to be very, very satisfying.

[User Picture]
From:shelbystripes
Date: - 0000
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Maybe you misinterpreted me. I wasn't saying you were gonna go say anything in my LJ about it. I was saying that you were gonna get angry here in his LJ. He took how angry you got here and then left comments in my LJ referring to that fact. He named you specifically in my LJ as an example of people who were offended by that shirt and my liking it, to justify his claim there that it's a "moral failing" on my part. I wasn't trying to say that he was trying to provoke you into saying something directly to me.

And I'm glad you don't agree with him on the "morally bankrupt" thing. I think I was also lumping you in with the rest of the commenters in Jay's journal, the ones who were agreeing with him on that. And that's not giving you as much credit as you deserved, either. You're right about that.
[User Picture]
From:melissasutton
Date: - 0000
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(blink) ummmm.. who thinks this is funny? And are we certain they have an IQ higher than that of toejam?

wow

[User Picture]
From:irpooh
Date: - 0000
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I'm glad you have words, because right now they fail me!
[User Picture]
From:foolscap001
Date: - 0000
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I suppose a person has the right to think that T-shirt funny. In turn, I have the right to consider such people morally bankrupt.
[User Picture]
From:vakkotaur
Date: - 0000
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It just goes to show, there's always another bottom below.

[User Picture]
From:melissasutton
Date: - 0000
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It would however, be amusing to put said person in said t-shirt and then put them in a dark subway car in Queens =)
From:archae
Date: - 0000
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[User Picture]
From:jmaynard
Date: - 0000

Re: It is funny, but sick.

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Was that funny?
No, and neither is Ann Coulter's statement you cite.
From:archae
Date: - 0000
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[User Picture]
From:jmaynard
Date: - 0000

Re: It is funny, but sick.

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I'm not missing the point. I simply find it morally bankrupt and thoroughly disgusting. There are some things that simply aren't funny because they tread on hallowed ground, and this is one of them.

There are asshole-in-the-morning DJs that get audience numbers by trying to be as outrageous and sick and obscene as they can get away with. I had to deal with one such. That they manage to draw enough listeners to stay on the air disgusts me, too.

I wonder how the guy who made that T-shirt would explain himself to someone who lost family aboard, say, United 175.

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